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 How does one get hardware data for writing drivers? 
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Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 7:53 pm
Posts: 18
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Post Re: How does one get hardware data for writing drivers?
Hey DudeOfX,

That's kinda half my point. If you never release your source code, then I never have a right to use it. The law is (automatically) on your side - I can't steal your work or anything like that! :)

It's only if you choose to release your source code - then you have the right (or obligation, or whatever) to license your work however you like.

Do you get what I mean? You never have to do a thing if you don't want your code to be out there. That's entirely your choice. If you do want to release your code, you also get the right to choose what other people do with it - since you wrote it originally, you can choose that. That's it.

GPL and other copyleft licenses aren't things that let other people take your work - they're a way for you to protect your own work - to make sure that no one else can just take your hard work, then do it up with a different name and call it their own.

As for lobbyists, well, who knows. Software patent regulation and all that kinda shit just muddies up the waters, but there're legal battles happening all over the world right now.


tl;dr: protection is yours automatically. Copyright is automatic - you don't even have to write "© myname 2010" to have copyright. Similarly, if there's no license on your code, it is not automatically public domain, or anything like that - people need to explicitly get your approval for use, redistribution, etc. By accompanying your work with a license of your choosing, you can make it explicit - e.g. your license may well be "no permission to modify or redistribute", if that's really what you want.

They're just a tool - a means to an end. And the GPL is just one of them.


Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:17 pm
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Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 9:15 am
Posts: 257
Post Re: How does one get hardware data for writing drivers?
you don't get me do you...

I am not out there to take other peoples code... but I do not appreciate lawyers trying to dictate what and how my senses should perceive and what my brain is allowed to compute and how I should I communicate my works to others... and if I ever get the ability to do it and if intellectual property lawyers get me pissed off enought... I will take GPL code, take it apart, teach the ins and outs and all arounds regarding such that other people can use it free from the GPL and would be willing to rewrite it to free it from such licenses...

I am not pissed off enought, nor do I have the money nor the willingness right now but just letting you know what direction I would go...

at the moment I look at the GPL license and just roll my eyes because its silly... I don't get angry because I know the same way the GNU people broke corporate incensing to make Linux the GPL can also be broken

You make the argument, "you don't like the license don't use it"
I'll make the argument, "you don't want it used don't release it"


Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:17 pm
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Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 7:53 pm
Posts: 18
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Post Re: How does one get hardware data for writing drivers?
Hey,

I kinda get what you mean. I think we're arguing at cross-purposes - so I'm not sure if we'll ever really "convince" each other of anything.

But I thought I'd just drop in a reply to let you know I've read your reply, and respect your opinion.

Cheers.


Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:36 pm
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Post Re: How does one get hardware data for writing drivers?
I think what DudeOfX and the other guy were saying is this:

If I come across a book on the internet, and from reading it I understand how, let's say, processors work. Then I go and become an electrical engineer and make processors and schematics. Now the person that wrote the book wants to claim all my work and make me release all the schematics to everyone because I learned from his book.

Analogically, that's what the GPL is like. I can understand if someone doesn't want you to copy paste their entire program, but you cannot claim code of others, just because they've learned from yours. I can understand that it tries to fight the other side, as in big corporation copyright that is basically taking over the world, but it's a little extreme.

I LEARNED from the code, but that doesn't mean magically all the code I now write has to be GPL. NO. GPL licensing code based on open standards is pretty retarded anyway, since you can't really claim that work is yours and force others to GPL it too because they learned of the standards from your code.


Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:16 am

Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 9:15 am
Posts: 257
Post Re: How does one get hardware data for writing drivers?
yes, something like that, yes...


Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:47 pm
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Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 7:53 pm
Posts: 18
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Post Re: How does one get hardware data for writing drivers?
DroppingBy wrote:
Analogically, that's what the GPL is like. I can understand if someone doesn't want you to copy paste their entire program, but you cannot claim code of others, just because they've learned from yours. I can understand that it tries to fight the other side, as in big corporation copyright that is basically taking over the world, but it's a little extreme.


While I don't like prolonging this thread any further, that's not actually the case. You can learn from GPL code without having to GPL your own - it's only copying code verbatim which is an issue.


Mon Feb 22, 2010 4:21 pm
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Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 9:15 am
Posts: 257
Post Re: How does one get hardware data for writing drivers?
I just had a heated experience and it was due to them dumb licenses... enforcing a rule any kind of rule to its strictest sense leads to bad-mojo... and right now I do not have a decent argument that would reveal the unwisdom behind the GPL but I bet you; its just theoretical and philosophical right now; that the rein of the GPL can get as bad as a Microsoft was....

and if you are wondering about my experience... it was cause I switched to Verizon FiOS 25/25MBps and well their Terms of Service states that you may not use the service to put any kind of server up... which is silly and unenforceable... So I asked customer service before ordering it... I also asked the installation guy as he was installing it... and they said I was Ok... but their router was denying it to me... their router appeared to be enforcing their rules... and I did get upset... at face value it turns out it was a bug in their router... misunderstanding here and there and everywhere... and that DUMB ASS Terms of Service... I mean the available technology is here to enforce them rules, thats what I was thinking they where doing... also their tech support can use a lot of training... and I mean a lot of training... and it bugged me soo much that they surely covered their asses sooo well for any of their potential mistakes but my mistakes in any direction would cost me $$$...

Experiences like that is why I am not to fond of the GPL


Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:50 pm
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Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:09 am
Posts: 58
Location: United Kingdom
Post Re: How does one get hardware data for writing drivers?
Hey,

This might be interesting to anyone interested in a philosophical standpoint on free software.

<cut>

It's an ongoing debate that's only just start up at FDR, but might answer any obvious questions one has to the difference between Freedom, and the FSF/Free Software Definition/GPL.

That particular forum is fantastic for it, because it's hosted by the guy that literally wrote the book on Universal Objective Ethics, so we have a great starting point in all discussions for verifying actions against a consistant model of morality.

Thanks,

James

EDIT: Removed Link. Link followed for purpose of trolling instead of discussion from rational first principles.


Last edited by Agalloch on Fri Feb 26, 2010 11:13 am, edited 2 times in total.

Removed Link



Thu Feb 25, 2010 4:28 am
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Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 8:07 am
Posts: 44
Location: Clarkesville, GA, USA
Post Re: How does one get hardware data for writing drivers?
Terry A. Davis wrote:
Why do corporations avoid GPL? Are you a friggin commie? You wish programmers not to make money or something?

I removed floppy support. Originally, I got ATA register numbers and commands--no intellectual property owned by linux -- they got it from a standard. I subsequently found the standard. I have no GPL issues, thank God.

You're a brainwashed commie.

How does one become uninfected if you're suggesting I got some disease from GPL? Is there no cure for the GPL? I'll see them in court! Is my lifes work owned by Linus Torvalds? You're a moron! Basically, you're saying anyone who comes near Linux has sold their soul for all eternity to Linus.


Being an opensource fanboy isn't quite that bad. Here's a great example of why. In the programming field, you go out and get your degree, and you think to yourself that this degree is going to get you the kind of job you want. You spend $40,000.00+ getting your education in the hopes that you may be able to $40,000.00+ a year. Once you graduate, you find out that this simply isn't true. In reality, you are never going to make it into the programming field, and will instead work a low paying job somewhere in IT making half of what you thought you would. Why? Because no company will hire you until you have experience, but to have experience you must get work somewhere. With open source software, you have that. You can bolster your resume, and use that to get a job somewhere in the software field. So, is open source really all that bad when it can lead to people who contribute to our economy, pay their taxes, and eventually out-grow their ideological dogmatism?

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Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:49 am
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Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 7:53 pm
Posts: 18
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Post Re: How does one get hardware data for writing drivers?
Ford wrote:
Being an opensource fanboy isn't quite that bad. Here's a great example of why. In the programming field, you go out and get your degree, and you think to yourself that this degree is going to get you the kind of job you want. You spend $40,000.00+ getting your education in the hopes that you may be able to $40,000.00+ a year. Once you graduate, you find out that this simply isn't true. In reality, you are never going to make it into the programming field, and will instead work a low paying job somewhere in IT making half of what you thought you would. Why? Because no company will hire you until you have experience, but to have experience you must get work somewhere. With open source software, you have that. You can bolster your resume, and use that to get a job somewhere in the software field. So, is open source really all that bad when it can lead to people who contribute to our economy, pay their taxes, and eventually out-grow their ideological dogmatism?


Remember, too, that not all free software advocates do have that "dogmatism"—F/OSS has many virtues, and a few drawbacks, but not all people are blind to those drawbacks. I work in a commercial organisation writing software. Most of it is closed source; I do get to open source anything my boss thinks would be helpful to the wider programming community at large (and which isn't proprietary to us). In my free time, I write open source. It works for me.


Mon Nov 15, 2010 6:08 pm
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